Genetics - Horse Genetics Game - Dev Forum

DP in Pearl?

HTRanch — Tue, 01 May 2018 13:40:36 -0700

I think I've got the hang of DP in chestnuts and bays, but pearl stumps me. I just bought this girl and realized her sire is het DP liver. What do I look for to determine DP in buckskin pearl (or other pearls)?

boo Rose Tortoise 2R

DP?

MariaChapinFarm3 — Sun, 29 Apr 2018 16:05:37 -0700

I dont really know how to tell if a horse carries dp, so i was wondering if anyone could tell me how to spot it?

Also, would this foal carry DP?

Napoleons Dynamite

Dream foal?

HeavenlyHooves2 — Wed, 28 Feb 2018 03:56:49 -0800

Could this mare throw me my dream of a black foal with white or silver mane and tail? If so what should I cross her with? Any help would be greatly appreciated. The dapples staying would be great..

Rocky Rose

Help me figure out what to look for

AshaWindsong — Fri, 27 Apr 2018 09:44:42 -0700

So I saw this handsome stallion and one point and fell in love with the contrasting stripes which remind me of a birch tree.

Alagan Dhiren Rajaram

I realize he is a RS so it’s possible that I can’t duplicate the look. But if anybody can help me figure out to look for in other horses recreate this or something very similar I would appreciate the advice.

Dark for a Champagne

AshaWindsong — Mon, 23 Apr 2018 17:35:22 -0700

I am curious about how dark she is

1922077

Any ideas why?

what would you say she is?

RenieRfarms — Thu, 19 Apr 2018 05:34:07 -0700

The different branches of Ice confuses me a bit.
http://hj2.huntandjump.com/horse.php?horseid=1977589
Is she Hom for Ice 8 and ice 1, or Het?

(Another) DP Inquiry

Ren — Mon, 16 Apr 2018 18:31:00 -0700

Okay, so I created this, in my opinion, stunning buckskin appaloosa. Now I happen to be a bit of a sucker for buckskins and appy so naturally you put them together and I melt, she doesn't even really show her appy but I still love her. Hahah. That aside this lovely lady just struck me as a bit darker than normal even with the hom sty. I went to my favorite saved DP guides and, to my relatively untrained eye, I think she is het DP. I went ahead and crossed her with an RS Dark Chocolate stud (just because) and got the lovely stud colt below. I'm thinking he's also het DP but wanted a second opinion. So, thoughts on these two?

Dark Secrets MaybeDP

Delightful Secrets DP

Hom Or Het

CircleSRanch — Thu, 12 Apr 2018 16:55:50 -0700

http://hj2.huntandjump.com/adv_search.php?owner=38544&owner_lm=like&barn=24772&barn_lm=like&runsearch=1

Perlino vs Cremello

Lallyhop — Wed, 11 Apr 2018 12:21:51 -0700

Can anyone point me to the genetic difference between a cremello and a perlino? I'm seeing a few different genes but I don't know which is responsible for the difference, and how it affects the color. I was originally under the impression that hom Ccr meant cremello every time, but I see that's not the case ;)

Cremello

Perlino

What going on?

MakeMeABird — Sun, 25 Mar 2018 20:22:46 -0700

DustSystem baystyw20ol" />

So I got this pretty girl yesterday. Im wondering why she has that odd flea like ticking of brown down her neck and upper flank?
I think it is pretty cool, yet to see it in another horse. If you have one luke her could you please post a picture.
Thanks

DP Grays

FreeWillRanch — Mon, 01 Jan 2018 04:51:31 -0800

Does anyone know how DP affects gray and/or vice versa? Have a gray stud and at least one DP mare so just wondering if anyone has more experience than I do. Thanks!

Kit p in RS "Shades of Pale"?

angelacres — Tue, 20 Mar 2018 08:23:53 -0700

So I gmt'd Kit P on this stud, but in RS Shades of Pale description it says "het"for everything... Does that included Kit P and now with the gmt would he actually be Hom?

RSIn Shades of Pale hetkp

LP question

JustaSaddletramp — Tue, 27 Mar 2018 21:27:55 -0700

Hi all! I'm fairly new here, and I have a question about in-game LP. How exactly did I manage to get an LPLP mare (hom W20, medium WF) who is solid buckskin? I have multiple apps with one LP and no PATN that are marked, so I'm curious. Thanks!

ST Dry Town

Lethal combination?

HeavenlyHooves2 — Fri, 23 Mar 2018 12:47:57 -0700

This mare

Snowy Duster 2
This stallion

RS Champagne Fizzy Heaven
I have been trying to be careful and thought the risk was low with these 2. What did I miss?

CC vs SS

singergirl — Tue, 20 Mar 2018 18:33:17 -0700

I have mare who's dominant homozygous cream (CC) and dominant homozygous sooty (SS) but she looks like this

Garland Crown

So is the CC masking the SS genes?

Homozygous W20

KaleidoscopeAcres — Tue, 20 Mar 2018 05:03:39 -0700

My herd helper today is Homozygous W20. One of the traits I breed for is white spotting, so I was wondering what that gene looks like when homo. I tried searching for it but a lot of the examples I found seemed to be solid horses. Is W20 just a hidden gene? I'd love to see some examples of homo W20 horses :)

Simplified Genetics Guide (Discussion)

Ren — Sun, 18 Mar 2018 08:09:11 -0700

Genetics Decoded

Information

For the full up to date guide please follow this link. The guide moved to allow for expansion/updating of the guide as the word limit was reached too quickly with the first and comments were already in place. :)
This guide may not be kept up to date but all discussions/questions/comments can take place here.

Words To Know

Phenotype - Observable (seen) characteristics or traits
Dominant - Expressed in the phenotype over recessive
Recessive - Expressed only when inherited from both parents (Masked if dominant allele is present)
Heterozygous - Having one dominant and one recessive gene
Homozygous - Having two of the same genes (both dominant/both recessive)
Incomplete Dominant - The expressed trait is a combination of the phenotype of both alleles.

EE - Black(Dominant) and Red Pigments

E - dominant and produces both black and red pigments.
Colors produced can include: Black, blue, bay, buckskin, grullo, brown
e - produces red pigment only. If recessive ee...
Colors produced can include: chestnut, red dun, palomino, liver chestnut, cremello

AA - Bay (Dominant)

A - dominant, restricts black pigment
a - non-bay, fully black


                A+ (wild bay) - Masks all (reduces black points)
		AA (classic) - Masks a and t
		At (brown) - masks a (heavy black remains on body)
		aa (black) - masked by all above

CC - Cream (Cr) and Pearl (Prl)


Dilution genes that are more noticeable on red pigment.
            C cr - Cream (Incomplete Dominant)
When heterozygous, pigment become paler/more yellow. 
		Red → palomino
		Bay → buckskin
		Black → smokey
When homozygous, pigment is greatly reduced/soft cream throughout with blue eyes. 
		Red → cremello
		Bay →  perlino
		Black →  smokey cream

             C prl - Pearl (Recessive)
When heterozygous it is not noticeable phenotypically (carried only)

When homozygous both red and black pigments are diluted.
The coat develops a metallic sheen.
Blue eyes turn green instead. 

**Pseudo Double Cream** - If carrying one copy of cream and one copy 
of pearl (CCr/CPrl) horses will look like a darker version of homozygous cream horses.

DD - Dun (Dominant)

D - dun
d - no dun
Dilution gene that affects both red and black by diluting the base body coat. A dun horse will always have a dorsal stripe with darker legs +/- horizontal striping. They may have a darker mane, tail, face, and ear tips. Other mottling or smokey marks may appear.

GG - Gray (Dominant gene that, if present, will express over other colors)

G - gray
g - no gray

Causing a gradual fading of color/removal of pigment - these horses often turn white over time.

FF - Flaxen (recessive)

F - no flaxen
f - flaxen

Flaxen is a recessive gene that requires homozygous ff to express and only shows on red based horses.

SS - Sooty (Incomplete dominant)

Affects both red and black pigments.
S - no sooty - bright form
S sty - darkens coat, homozygous causes more darkening than heterozygous. May add dapples.
S+ - sooty plus adds the most darkening, homozygous causes more darkening than heterozygous. May add dapples.

**DP - Dense Pheomelanin (Incomplete dominant)** - affects the red pigment only and makes it darker. This is a hidden gene that cannot be tested for. The color liver happens when there are at least 3 darkening genes present.

PP - Pangere (Dominant)

P - pangere
p - no pangere

Pangere lightens the pigment in specific areas (muzzle, flanks, +/- legs) and only affects red pigment to any significant amount.

ZZ - Silver (Dominant)

Z - silver
z - no silver

Silver only needs one copy to express. Causes the mane and tail to lighten and dilutes the body, may also cause dapples. Silver only alters black pigmented horses (EE/Ee) and has no effect on red horses (ee).

ChCh - Champagne (Dominant)

Ch - champagne
ch - no champagne

A dilution gene that lightens the base coat color and always expresses if there is one copy of Ch.


	Classic - uniform black horses dilutes to classic champagne
	Gold - chestnut base dilutes to gold (usually flaxen mane/tail) 
	Amber - bay dilutes to amber
	Sable - brown dilutes to sable

SaSa - Satin (Recessive)

Sasa - does not show with one copy of sa, carrier only
sasa - satin
Satin causes light to refract differently off the hair causing a satin sheen.

KitKit - Tobiano/Roan/White spotting

The Kit genes encompass quite a few different phenotypes please use the search horses function for more examples.

Kit to - tobiano (4 white legs + rounded white spots on body)
Kit r - roan (even mixture of white and pigmented hairs)
Kit w - white 1 (large amounts of white)
Kit w2 - white 2 (large amounts of white)
Kit w3 - white 3 (mottled white)
Kit w8 - white 8 (mottled white)
Kit w10 - white 10 (mottled white splash look)
Kit w20 - white 20 (modifier gene - increases white and can change patterns when paired with some other genes)
Kit m - white M (large ‘spots’ of color on a mostly white body)
Kit sb1 - sabino 1 (irregular white body patches when heterozygous, all white if homozygous)
Kit sb2 - sabino 2 (irregular white patches)
**KP - Kit Promoter (recessive) - a hidden related gene that must have 2 KIT (any mutation) and 2 recessive KP to express.**

SpSp - Splash

Adds white splash (dipped in white look with varying amounts of white)
Sp s - splash
Sp s3 - splash 3 (rarely available in the GMT lab)
Sp M - macchiato (fantasy gene)

PAX3PAX3 - Splash 2

PAX3 C70Y - splash 2, available in the GMT lab, adds white.

LL - Appaloosa

L lp - Expresses appaloosa. If homozygous guaranteed to throw appaloosa foals.
**SF - Snowflake (recessive) - a hidden related gene that requires at least 1 Lp and 2 recessive SF to express.**

ECA3P - Blanket/Leopard

ECA3P PATN1 - heavily promotes white blanket markings. Homozygous PATN1 usually have very large blankets and may be full leopards. Needs appaloosa gene (L lp) to express.

RbRb - Rabicano

Rb - Will express if one copy of Rb causing white hair along the tail head and flanks often forming distinct stripes. The mode of inheritance is not well understood.

OO - Frame

Olw - Modifier gene that causes pigment loss that produces white markings. This can work with other genes to modify white patterns.
If homozygous (OlwOlw) causes a lethal white overo (fatal foal).
**The exception to this rule are the Rank Special Freaky Friday horses obtained through the herd helper who are homozygous for frame.**

GP - Gulastra Plume (recessive)

**Causes pigment loss in the tail and occasionally the mane. Must have at least 1 E (black) and at least 1 A (bay) A+/A/At.**

WF - White Factor

The more white spotting mutations a horse has the less pigment that pushes against the white areas. In real life this is controlled by a complex combination of genes. In the game, it is currently simplified to a numerical value of None, Minimal, Light, Medium, Large, or Extensive.

Olw influencing KIT lethality?

HTRanch — Sun, 18 Mar 2018 22:03:59 -0700

I have already found the KIT lethality chart, which is super helpful and which I refer to at least once a day (thanks Ammit!) However, I was wondering if KIT and frame can influence each other to cause fatality? Would KIT crosses that have a slight chance of lethality have a higher chance of producing a lethal foal if frame was in the mix?

Simplified Genetics Guide

Ren — Sun, 18 Mar 2018 15:34:23 -0700

Genetics Decoded

A Gene Guide, Simplified

Last revised: 3/17/18

Introduction

The point of this gene guide is to simplify things from the main genetics guide. This is meant to be a supplemental guide, not a substitute, for the main site genetics guide. You may find errors, they are unintentional or based upon a prior understanding of the genetics that may change as the game evolves. Please contact me if you find an error so I can correct it! Although I will try to keep this updated please realize that this may not be 100% accurate and there are aspects of genetics within this game that are hidden or unknown. You can find other discussions on the forums that go deeper into specific genes and, at this time, they will not be covered in-depth here. If you think something should be changed or added, please PM me. I hope this is helpful for people! Please refrain from posting/commenting on this thread and instead send me a PM, post on the discussions thread which can be found here, or start a new thread. Thanks!

Words To Know

Phenotype - Observable (seen) characteristics or traits
Dominant - Expressed in the phenotype over recessive
Recessive - Expressed only when inherited from both parents (Masked if dominant allele is present)
Heterozygous - Having one dominant and one recessive gene
Homozygous - Having two of the same genes (either both dominant or both recessive)
Incomplete Dominant - The expressed trait is a combination of the phenotype of both alleles.

EE - Black(Dominant) and Red Pigments

AA - Bay (Dominant)

A - dominant, restricts black pigment
a - non-bay, fully black


                A+ (wild bay) - Masks all (reduces black points)
		AA (classic) - Masks a and t
		At (brown) - masks a (heavy black remains on body)
		Aa (black) - masked by all above

CC - Cream (Cr) and Pearl (Prl)


Cream and Pearl are dilution genes that are more noticeable on red pigment.
            C cr - Cream (Incomplete Dominant)
When heterozygous, pigment become paler/more yellow. 
		Red → palomino
		Bay → buckskin
		Black → smokey
When homozygous, pigment is greatly reduced/soft cream throughout with blue eyes. 
		Red → cremello
		Bay →  perlino
		Black →  smokey cream

             C prl - Pearl (Recessive)
When heterozygous it is not noticeable phenotypically (carried only)

When homozygous both red and black pigments are diluted.
The coat develops a metallic sheen.
Blue eyes turn green instead. 

**Pseudo Double Cream** - If carrying one copy of cream and one copy 
of pearl (CCr/CPrl) horses will look like a darker version of homozygous cream horses.

DD - Dun (Dominant)

D - dun
d - no dun
Dun is a dilution gene that affects both red and black by diluting the base body coat. A dun horse will always have a dorsal stripe with darker legs +/- horizontal striping. They may have a darker mane, tail, face, and ear tips. Other mottling or smokey marks may appear.

GG - Gray (Dominant gene that, if present, will express over other colors)

G - gray
g - no gray

Gray causes a gradual fading of color/removal of pigment - these horses often turn white over time.

FF - Flaxen (recessive)

F - no flaxen
f - flaxen

Flaxen is a recessive gene that requires homozygous ff to express and only shows on red based horses.

SS - Sooty (Incomplete dominant)

Affects both red and black pigments.


	S - no sooty - bright form
	S sty - darkens coat.
	Homozygous causes more darkening than heterozygous. 
	May add dapples.
	S+ - sooty plus adds the most darkening. 
	Homozygous causes more darkening than heterozygous. 
	May add dapples. 

**DP - Dense Pheomelanin (Incomplete dominant)** 
A related hidden gene that affects the red pigment and makes it darker. 
For Liver or Chocolate to express it requires 3 darkening genes, 
any combination of sty/s+ and DP. 
Want more info on DP? Check out the Ninja Liver Guide

PP - Pangere (Dominant)

P - pangere
p - no pangere

Pangere lightens the pigment in specific areas (muzzle, flanks, +/- legs) and only affects red pigment to any significant amount.

ZZ - Silver (Dominant)

ChCh - Champagne (Dominant)

Ch - champagne
ch - no champagne

A dilution gene that lightens the base coat color and always expresses if there is one copy of Ch.


	Classic - uniform black horses dilutes to classic champagne
	Gold - chestnut base dilutes to gold (usually flaxen mane/tail) 
	Amber - bay dilutes to amber
	Sable - brown dilutes to sable

SaSa - Satin (Recessive)

Sasa - does not show with one copy of sa, carrier only
sasa - satin

Satin causes light to refract differently off the hair causing a satin sheen.

Help with Varnish

strawroan — Fri, 02 Mar 2018 05:29:04 -0800

I know this should maybe be in the Genetics section but I wanted as many people to see it as possible. The Appaloosa chat seems as stumped as I am!

I want to get varnish out of my lines, and to do that I have to understand it. First, I'm assuming it is heritable, and not a (hugely common) mutation like brindle.

So now I need to know if it is recessive (needing 2 copies to be expressed) or dominant (needing only 1 copy) or if it is on something of a spectrum like DP; 2 copies will give you more dramatic/earlier varnishing but 1 copy will still cause varnish, just to a lesser degree.

It's also complicated by the fact that varnish doesn't always show up right away. However I think all of my appies with varnish have started showing at least a little by 5 or 6.

I'm also assuming that non-appaloosa horses can also carry varnish, the same as they can carry snowflake and ECA3P - it just won't be visible. This is my only conclusion based on the fact that my non-varnish appy stud, when bred to solid mares, has thrown some varnish appy babies.

So here's my liver app stud. He's 5 and doesn't have a fleck of varnish. I've used him for just one season so far so I don't have much of a sample size for foals yet (and won't for a few seasons, since it takes a couple 'years' for the varnish to show).

AH3 To The Moon

Most of his appy foals are now 3 years old and some are clearly showing varnish, some aren't. Depending on how the gene behaves, I can assume my stud has either one or zero copies of varnish. Does anybody have any more info on this gene and how it acts on phenotype?

Gene guide that actually says whether they're dominant or recessive?

Ragtatter — Mon, 12 Mar 2018 16:30:06 -0700

Knowing which chromosome a gene is on is interesting, but it's not really useful. Has anyone made a gene guide that says which traits are dominant and which are recessive? For example, for the "Satin" gene, the guide says the following:

"Satin is a gene found in many animals and proposed to be found in some breeds of horses, most notably the Akhal Teke. Satin animals have mostly hollow hair shafts with a missing medulla (innermost layer of the hair shaft). The hair is instead filled with air pockets. This causes light to refract differently on satin coats then normal coats. Satin hair is also finer and more delicate then normal hair. Satin may be located at the Foxq1 gene (Forkhead box, subclass q, member 1)."

It doesn't even indicate that "Sa" is the symbol used to mark that locus (and honestly I'm just guessing that that's the symbol they're using--it's the symbol we use in rabbits, anyway), or whether satinization is caused by the dominant allele "Sa", or the recessive allele "sa". I know it's recessive in rabbits, but I honestly have no idea about horses.

The same for the dun gene. It doesn't say what symbol is used to mark it's locus (though I'm pretty sure it's dd), or whether dun is dominant or recessive.

Has anyone made a simple dominance guide, at least for the traits that are passed on in a simple dominance fashion?

Breeding White

HeavenlyHooves — Mon, 19 Feb 2018 20:34:03 -0800

I have made it my goal to breed my dream horses here. They are a solid white with black mane and tail, and a black with white or silver mane and tail. Any advice on where to start?

Wild bay buckskin with dp? -another question

CWScowgirl87 — Thu, 01 Feb 2018 05:45:48 -0800

How do these look with DP? I know it turns wild bays bright red, but what does it do to buckskins with wild bay?

To GMT or not to GMT

lostcause — Sun, 25 Feb 2018 15:56:25 -0800

I'm debating whether to GMT a second copy of Appaloosa(Llp) on this guy.

LC1 Paris

White 1

HeavenlyHooves2 — Mon, 26 Feb 2018 10:12:37 -0800

I've been looking and looking and can't find the post that answers this. White 1 bred with white 1 is always lethal?

Consistency?

Bigllamatown — Fri, 16 Feb 2018 11:51:17 -0800

What does that really mean? Is it bad to be inconsistent? I have one but he's pretty so idk

This horse's color...

dark star — Fri, 09 Feb 2018 18:36:02 -0800

Cute little mustang at the BLM

I am loving all the little black flecks splattered through this guy's white markings, but what could be causing it? I've never seen it before. I have seen the roaned out spots on tobianos, but this guy doesn't look tobiano.

Anyone specifically breed sables?

KAMRanch — Thu, 25 Jan 2018 11:40:13 -0800

I started a chat for sable breeders, but I have yet to see anyone that is all about it.. anyone like to breed sables and want to converse? :)

Just double checking my correctness.. need more help..

KAMRanch — Sat, 27 Jan 2018 11:13:51 -0800

I got lucky with this foal..
Her parents are both Yule log ashes,

LumpintheAshes 2g

I bred her parents again this year and the foal was lethal.. the impossible w2 and w1 combo? What are the chances of having another good foal? Vs another lethal.. is it 50/50 like I'm thinking? :/

Real Dun Gene

RoseFlute — Fri, 26 Jan 2018 14:46:56 -0800

I was following all the rabbit trails and I found this color test on a facebook page for a beautiful roping stallion named Latigo Dun It. It is incredibly blurry, but I think it says there are two different Dun alleles, labelled d1 and d2.

What's the difference?